Host: Hello, welcome to the Nupur Tewari show, episode number 14, presented by Heal Tokyo and Heal India. We are really grateful to you for your continuous help and support and love as well. Today’s guest, a great humanitarian and a spiritual Guru, but he doesn’t like to be called Guru. Rather, he wants to be a companion, and he is none other than Mohanji.
With big applause, let’s welcome Mohanji!
Host: Welcome to the Nupur Tewari Show.
Mohanji: Thank you so much. Thank you for bringing me here.
Host: Thank you so much for giving your time, and I feel so many miles away we are, but I can feel that positivity here with me. The world would love to know that how Mohan became Mohanji? We are very much curious to know. What happened that made you today’s Mohanji?
Mohanji: I believe we all have our deep urge to know who we are, who we actually are. But what happens is, the usual habitual life does not give us that opportunity. When we wake up in the morning, we are already in a habitual mode, habitual thinking, habitual actions, everything is kind of repetitive.
At some point in time, you start to think: “Hey, Is this life? Is this what I want to do in life? Is this what I am born for?” These questions sometimes really become an urge. The shift, I can say in my life, was in 2000 August 23. I lost my daughter in a road accident. She was four and a half years old, four years and few months. I was very deeply connected to her.
Suddenly, when she exited from my life, I asked this question: what is life all about? But instead of sinking in sorrows, I decided to explore. That was my first trip to the Himalayas. I did not know what I was looking for like most people do not know what they’re looking for. They know there is something else but not knowing what.
So I started searching. I met a few masters or spiritual people, but then I was not happy to go on a choreographed path – a beaten track. The problem with a beaten track is that it destroys your individuality. I believe that we must maintain our individuality and find ourselves, then only we become authentic. I can’t be somebody else, I can only be more Mohanji, and that’s fine. I started exploring.
I was working in the Middle East as a country head of a company at that time. Work was good, money was good, the job was fine, everything was fine, but when back home, inside, the deep vacuum and knowing the truth was predominant.
I used to wake up early in the morning at 2.30h every day. Then I would take a bath; I had then very little hair. Otherwise, you got to take a bath with all this hair (laughs). So, I used to take a bath. I used to sit down, and I used to connect to my spine. The spine was my stairway to heaven.
See, we are always oriented to the front, right? Eyes, nose, mouth, everything is focused on the front side. We hardly know we have a spine unless we have pain in the spine. So, the whole idea was to sit down and feel the spine and then start feeling the spine, which means you are completely going backwards. That means you are going in 360 degrees. Otherwise, we are only at 120 degrees.
This started becoming habitual. Then after a while, you can see yourself doing things. It’s like witneshood, a constant witnesshood; you are witnessing, you’re watching. That shift happened automatically. That involvement – “my doership, I am doing, Mohanji is doing, I am Mohanji” – that started reducing. “It’s happening through me.” Doing to happening. That was a big leap. Then it started changing. But the answer to the question is, it was a deep urge to know what this whole thing is about. There must be a deeper story than what is obvious.
Host: Exactly. So, why did you choose the Himalayas? Is it always right to go to the Himalayas to find ourselves?
Mohanji: Well, now I wouldn’t say so. Earlier I did not know where to go, and I’ve had some contact in the Himalayas, so naturally, I went there. To be very honest, I wanted to escape from the circle of sorrows soon after my daughter left because everybody was dull and sulking and crying. I just wanted to get out of this, to have some fresh air, and the right place to go then, which I could afford. I didn’t have money as well at that time; I was not having that kind of money. I didn’t have money to travel by flight; I went by train. So, that potential location was the Himalayas, where it was affordable. And also, I don’t call it a mistake, because it helped me.
But now I feel if you ask me now, I would say that where you are sitting on is the Himalayas. It’s a mindset, which I, later on, found out. You don’t have to go anywhere to find peace. If you can’t find peace within you wherever you go, it doesn’t matter. You’ve got to find that thing within you; the Himalayas are inside. And what you want to find it’s already inside. Now I know this, but at that time, I did not know.
Host: Yeah, that was the process, I guess. How was experiencing the Himalayas?
Mohanji: Initially, what I felt was, nobody really cared about you. That was a big, great feeling. When I was in the corporate business, it was like – who are you? You plus the company, you plus the position, how much money you have in your bank; all these things are very important. But when you go to the Himalayas, I was walking barefoot.
I was wearing just a cloth around me, and nobody looked at me. Nobody really cared. Nobody asked me, “What do you do, where are you from, when are you going back,” or “How much money do you have.” Nobody cared. That became a big relief for me. It was a big escape because you don’t have to tell who you are. It doesn’t matter what your name is, where you come from, your colour, complexion, or location. So this was a big relief for me. That was my first impression.
Later on, that led to a deeper connection because when you do not have to interact with people, you have all the time for yourself, which you don’t find in society. We habitually interact with people; we have to call people, talk to people, and share space, time, and energy. This is not required there. I thought, okay then, I have some time for myself. Basically, I used to go to the Himalayas to be with myself.
Host: And Mohanji has found himself in the Himalayas.
Mohanji: Well, I like to believe I did. I like to believe I have found myself.
Host: Yeah, so the Himalayas is the place where a real spiritual journey started, I guess, for you.
Mohanji: Yes, that thought, that quest became a kind of journey there. What was a thought before, it eventually became a journey in the Himalayas. But again, as I told the beginning, I do not want to tell that I went there with full awareness. I had no awareness. I did not know what I was looking for.
When I went there, I was literally trying to find what is this whole thing about. Also, when you interact with too many people, it always confuses you. Have you observed? When you talk to ten people, ten people will give you twenty opinions. So, you don’t know what to trust. This was my thing. I just decided to follow my path.
First, I have heard that a blank state, a state of no-thought, is possible. We have that in the deep sleep state every night. In deep sleep, there is no thought. So I wanted to experience that state of no thought while I’m awake. It was not easy. Like that, it was experimentation, one after the other. I was trying to figure out this whole thing. But later on, I entered a no-thought state; then I realized it’s not a permanent state. So everything is an experiment. I call myself an experiential spiritualist, which means I wouldn’t talk about it if I can’t experience it.
Host: Exactly. So corporate world, where you were in, before entering in the spiritual world and today you are in the spiritual world – it’s a totally different world. In the corporate world, people are really just chasing name, fame, and money. You are in the spiritual world; you are spreading love. You have experiences of these two phases of life in one life. What would you like to say today to those people who are in the corporate world? What would be your message to them?
Mohanji: Yeah, that’s a very realistic question, Nupur. That is a very important question because this question happened to me earlier also. Am I faking this whole thing? When I was working as the country head of a company, I asked this question, “Am I running away? Am I escaping into something unrealistic? “Because it’s not tangible, right? What is happening within you, you cannot show. It’s happening.
Two things I can tell you: one is the practice. I used to practice early in the morning, from 3 am to 8 am. At 8:30 am, I was at the office, so from 3 am to 8 am was my time. We must have our time. Usually, what happens is that we don’t have our time.
We have sold all of our time for money. In the corporate world, we are selling our time, and we are earning money, but we must have our time. This is our birthright. I found that that time, its quality, is possible only in the early morning hours when nobody calls you. When your phones are silent, and you are free. That’s my time, my personal time.
At that time, I was alone; I didn’t have a relationship, so I was pretty much alone, which helped me as well. Even if I had parties at night, whatever happened, this time was very precious for me. Even if I slept at midnight, I would get up at 2.30, and I was fresh because this time gives you stability, strength, and purposefulness. Then you’re selling your time for money from 8.30 onwards, until whatever time you come back home. That’s okay because you already have a balance.
So number one, I would like to tell the corporate people to make that balance, which nobody can give you, except you. You can’t buy it with money. You can buy alcohol or some kind of distraction with money, but you cannot buy with money this personal time and connection to yourself. This is the most precious thing, which money can’t buy.
Secondly, going to a place for relaxation, that’s what we normally do. We take a vacation and go to a place and come back more tired. We get more tired by going somewhere than when we are here.
Mohanji: Going to a place is okay, provided you can have your time there also. Go for isolation. Isolation – it doesn’t mean that you should not talk to people, but spending your own time in different locations, connecting to yourself, like you’re going to a beach, spend some time with yourself, then the rest of the time you spend time with your family. So, there should be your time, personal time.
This is what I was strictly following. Even now, I do have my personal time. And there are times when I am completely cut off. At that time I’m not available. At that level, we can position ourselves. We become so powerful. No emotions or distractions will touch us deeply. Then we are more effective.
Host: Exactly. As we are talking about corporate life, in today’s world, most people are chasing the name, fame, money, and materialistic things. How to start their journey to be a spiritual being?
Mohanji: Well, this is the training, right? We are trained to be somebody. The education system, the society tells you, you got to make your name, and you got to make your fame and all those things. But, do that. No problem. But how do you do that? It should be with your authenticity. We have only something; we have the best thing sitting within us, which is our authenticity. One example that we are authentic is our thumb impression. This is unique to us. We have authenticity, but we fail to believe in it. This is our problem.
We look at somebody; we compare, we compete. These are draining us. But instead, how can you be a legend? You can. How? If you really believe in yourself, your authenticity, your uniqueness which is true to you. I cannot be somebody else, and I don’t have to be somebody else. Somebody else cannot be me, and it’s a shame if they tried to be me. So, what is good for us is being ourselves. I can only be Mohanji, and I’m happy to be Mohanji. I will die as Mohanji. Now, this is the investment I’m making.
Host: And we are very happy to have you with us, Mohanji.
Mohanji: Thank you. I mean to say that the habitual chasing of name, fame, glory, money should be shifted to that whole aspect inside you. Believe in it. Then it manifests as the truth on the outside. Instead of chasing outside, compete with yourself, improve yourself. Talk to yourself, accept yourself. First and foremost, acceptance. Total acceptance. The moment you start accepting yourself with all your weaknesses. We all have weaknesses; we all have strengths. Nobody is only strength.
I’ve never believed that I’m only strength, and I know I’m not. Accept the weaknesses equally, do not glorify them. I have weaknesses; I have strengths. So, what I’m investing in is my strength while allowing the weakness to stay there. We are not competing, fighting, resisting. How much time is saved!
Most of the time, we are trying to pretend, or we’re trying to prove to the world that we are great. We don’t have to. Our life will prove it; our integrity will prove it. If we are consistent in our belief, i.e. if we have integrity, that will prove to the world. We don’t have to prove anything else; the world doesn’t need all that proof.
My message to the corporate leaders is basically –
Explore that uniqueness in you, and that should be your contribution, and that will bring glory to you. Glory, money, power, position, everything comes to you if you invest in your uniqueness. That unique flavour is your delivery or your contribution to the world.
Host: So beautifully explained, and we’d love to go back to your childhood now. Because, now you are enlightening us, you are giving so much knowledge to us. How was your childhood? Have you ever thought that you would become who you are today?
Mohanji: I don’t think I had a great childhood. I mean, nothing was special, I feel. The only thing which I remember, which became a crisis in my life at that stage, was probably when I was five years or six years old when the teacher asked us in the class, “What would you like to be when you grow up?” I wrote, “I would like to be alone.” I don’t know why I wrote this; I have no clue why I wrote this.
At that time, it was not with awareness; then, the teacher freaked out. Everybody was writing: a doctor, engineer, pilot, astronaut, and all that, but I wrote, “I would like to be alone.” The teacher freaked out and said, “This is a retarded child”, and she wanted me to go out to the school. She provoked my parents to take me off school. But then, somehow, I managed to continue, and I wasn’t really keen on the usual regular education, which now I feel was nice, not to have crammed my brain with theories, concepts.
I wouldn’t call myself a spiritualist; I would rather call myself a humanitarian because I believe in human beings. I believe in the capacity of human beings and the dimensions which we can achieve. Many people do not achieve the highest because they eat concepts continuously from books, even in the spiritual journey. They swallow it, and they believe that these things should happen.
Many of these concepts are people’s opinions. Because see, Nupur can experience only what is as per your capacity. I cannot say that all that capacity is not good enough. That’s not my job. Your capacity is fine for you. So, if we take a concept and we decide, this is how our reality should be, it may not work. But if you take yourself and you go for your own realities, it will work 100 percent. There is progress.
Thus, in my childhood, I can’t remember too many great things because I was a loner, and I was probably very introverted, and there was nothing great in childhood. But I used to love poetry; I used to write poetry, I used to write a lot of stuff, various things. For me, the real shift happened with my daughter’s exit. That time I was in my 30s. That’s the death of one life and the beginning of another life.
Host: That really changed your life, but it did have to change, you know that sad way. But what do you think? What do you feel like she had to go that way?
Mohanji: Well, that’s a big question, very difficult to say. I can only say it happened so, but sometimes a rude shock shifts you completely. It literally turns you upside down. When I see death and destruction today, I feel that it’s madness, the wars, the destructions, and deaths. What did we gain by all this? By conquering lands and people, what do we gain?
Instead, use that time to conquer your own mind. The mind which is pushing you to conquer other things outside should be controlled. That’s a real conquest. Otherwise, there is nothing you’re conquering. Whatever we buy or take from the outside world, we have to leave behind when we die.
So, there is nothing we are conquering. I feel that, my God! 6 million people died in World War II, 6 million Jews were killed by Hitler’s army, then so many people killed by Pol Pot. All these things when I hear, I feel that why this madness? What is the benefit of killing? The beauty is in living, experiencing, loving, so we could change our mindset. We have the capacity.
So coming back to your question, why she exited in a dramatic way, I do not know. But that really had an effect on my life, that much I can say. That effect is visible in today’s world. We started ACT Foundation, Ammucare. Ammucare is 17 years old now; we are doing a lot of charity work. ACT Foundation in many countries: America, UK, South Africa, and various countries.
We are somehow touching the lives of a lot of people. I never made a plan. I still don’t have an agenda. All I did was to create a platform where people can come and work, and it works. So, that dramatic exit of Ammu made all these things in the world. Did I plan it? Absolutely not. I didn’t plan it. It just happened.
Host: I’d like to say, actually eight years ago I lost my father, and definitely, after one year I was like, why he had to go because all of a sudden he left. Today when I look back, I feel that it’s not that everything happens for good; because we are human beings, we definitely cannot take it that way. But it made you the person you have to be in this world or what this universe is expecting from you. So, that was, and that is why I asked you that question because, after my father’s death, I did a lot of things that I never planned before. I think there is someone, somewhere, planning for us. So, what is your opinion on that?
Mohanji: Well, I would call this an awakening. Something which was already sitting in your, waiting to wake up and some trigger happens. On a normal conditioned life, it will not happen. Because we are used to certain patterns, and we continue with the patterns. We don’t have to change. But suddenly, a spark happens, something totally dramatic, totally unpredictable, unexpected happens, then you wake up. Then, the dimensions open up.
Probably you would never have imagined in your wildest dreams. Even for me, I was a chronic introvert. If somebody told me, “You should go and speak to people,” it was impossible for me. Even when I was heading a country company, I would avoid all sorts of public things—that much introversion. But now, today, I find myself speaking to people, and people apparently like it. These kinds of things, you can’t plan. Of course, as you said, nature has its plan, maybe beyond our plan.
Also, I firmly believe that nature will not support it if what I do is not important for nature. If what I do is good for the world, the world takes it over. So, if our activities are selfless and aim to enhance people’s lives and the beings around us, nature will definitely take it over. Nature will empower it, that becomes the wind beneath our wings. Otherwise, it’s our effort and no support. I firmly believe in the Grace factor. The grace factor happens only when we have great gratitude.
We should be grateful for every breath, and we should be grateful for everything we do. Gratefulness has a lot of value, and mostly what happens is, we miss that in today’s world. We take everything for granted. The loss is the Grace. People may not realize it; with Grace, you can do wonders.
But sometimes, what happens we get carried away with our daily life, and we start with, “Oh, I am great, I’m doing all these things. so I’m not ordinary.” It’s a trap – a big trap. I believe that everything is happening through me; with or without Mohanji, the world will function. I’m not important more than what I’m delivering right now. Tomorrow I don’t know.
So, we have to understand, and we have to be humble about it. There’s nothing to be proud of. If I’m able to touch lives, I’m happy. And how long, I don’t know. I don’t know how long this heart will beat, but I don’t have to know. Today is my day. Today we are talking, and that’s the reality.
We live every day. We love every day, and we continue every day. We just got to be very grateful, no wastage. I mean using minimal things and don’t try to cram things up, clutter things up, etc., so that we can have a clean lifestyle. I’m telling people more about a clean lifestyle than a spiritual lifestyle because spirituality happens when you have no clutter.
Host: Most of the time, when I talk to today’s youngsters, the spirituality, like, what is spirituality. I’m sure that you have experienced and you can see around so many sorrows in people’s lives. Just, most of the time, they are sad, and they’re just waiting for something more in their life. They’re becoming sad about that. So, here we can see less happiness and more sorrows in our society, everywhere, around the world. Why is it happening? Why aren’t we happy, Mohanji?
Mohanji: One word is the expectation, Nupur. The first point – I’ll explain what spirituality is.
We have our body, tangible body, which has requirements like food, water, etc. Then, we have a reasonably tangible mind. Mind also has a requirement. The mind’s requirement is emotion. Intellect’s requirement is information, and ego’s requirement is ownership. These three things we can feel inside. So these are closer to earth matters. The body is very, very well connected to earth; mind, intellect, and ego are also associated with earth and earthly life.
But then, there is ‘electricity’, just like the electricity is operating so that I can see you because the light is there. The light is provoked by or provided by electricity. If electricity was not there, there wouldn’t be light. Just like that, electricity is there inside us. We call it Atma Tattwa or the soul principle, the soul. Soul aspect. And this electricity is electrifying our body, mind, intellect, and ego.
Understanding this electricity is spirituality. Being aware of this electricity is spirituality. Just like the electricity comes into the light bulb, you get light. The same electricity goes into a washing machine; it has a different function. The same electricity goes into the refrigerator, function changes. Like that, this electricity is the same, but its functions are different. That is why there are numerous creations in the world. Inside is the same, same electricity. So, understanding and identifying this electricity in everything is God-realization.
Self-realization is understanding the self inside, which means being aware of it and being and feeling it, actually experiencing it; that is self-realization. Understanding that the same electricity is in everything becomes God-realization because you see the expanse of it.
Now, why are we suffering?
Because of only one reason – identification, we identify ourselves. I might identify myself as Mohanji because the world will not accept me as anything else. Every day, everybody says, “Mohanji, I am happy to meet you. I’m glad to see you.” So “Mohanji, Mohanji, Mohanji..” keeps coming to me.
I believe I am Mohanji. I have to maintain this identification; otherwise, people won’t recognize me. This identification comes with expectations. Mohanji has expectations, and expectations may not happen as per our expectations. Sometimes it doesn’t work. Expectations lead to disappointments.
And sometimes, if it is fulfilled, we are happy. No problem. But if it is not fulfilled- disappointment. Disappointment leads to a lack of self-esteem. Our self-esteem is affected. Sometimes we feel, “Hey, did I make a mistake?” Then society does not permit mistakes, right? Society only likes successful people. Losers – we don’t want to see them, but success and failure are part of life.
We must accept both. We had fallen many times before we learned to walk. Nobody started walking straight away. This understanding is important, that will give us balance. The expectation is the root cause of sorrows. And if we are flexible, “Okay, my purest intention, good intention is to make this happen, but if it didn’t happen, okay, I will take the next step. I’ll take a detour. I will go elsewhere.” If we are flexible, we will have fewer sorrows. Flexibility is the key.
Now, we know with this Covid situation, we are forced to be flexible. While we are talking through a machine because of Covid, otherwise, I would have probably come to Tokyo; we would have spoken directly. Various levels of restrictions happened with Covid, and we saw that. That makes us realize that things that are beyond our control demand flexibility in us.
Why people have sorrows?
Because of expectations, which leads to anger, lack of self-esteem, depression, all these things happen. I would always say that if you really spend time, a little bit of time with yourself, to see and feel your own principle, which is making you alive, keeping you alive, it would be greatly helpful to stabilize life. Otherwise, expectations cannot be eradicated. It’s part of our system. Society expects something from you.
For example, Nupur is doing the show. So people who are watching the show are expecting you to do the show. You can’t say that -I will not do any more shows because there is an expectation connected to it. These things you can’t avoid, but at the same time, you need to accept that there can be changes. So you can avoid frustrations a lot. Avoid disappointments quite a bit, and becoming flexible, so okay, this is not working. Why shift to here. The more flexible you are, the more successful you are.
Host: Wonderfully, you said. The more flexible you are, the more successful you are. And that is, I think, for all the youth today, not only youth, whoever is even in their 40s or 50s also, starting their life, we can talk at any age, I guess.
Mohanji: Age is not important; attitude is important. If our attitude is negative, whatever age you are, it is useless. If our attitude is positive, we can make something out of nothing.
Host: What a wonderful way you said it. I think today, everywhere, the whole world should know about it, we would have more happiness in our life. How yoga and meditation can be and should be part of our life? What do you suggest?
Mohanji: They are essential because it’s reconnection. Yoga connects you to yourself, right? It unites you to yourself. Meditation is going within, and I also believe in contemplation (manana). Manana is also important. Contemplation. We need to ask this question: What is this thing about? What is Mohanji, or what is you; what is A, B, or C?
We must ask this question to ourselves so that it leads you to explore. Self-exploration is important. Spending time with yourself is important. Self-exploration is important, and also understanding. For example, for 80% of your vital functions like heartbeat, respiration, circulation, digestion, you have no control of. Without this, we are not alive. We must start thinking about these factors. Mainly, most of the very important things in our life we have no control of.
What do we have control of?
These questions should come from within. That will help us, our connection to ourselves, and also we have great masters given us easy philosophy. Like, they have said, watch your breath. It is being aware that you’re breathing; being aware that you’re thinking. I would say that today people say, “Mohanji, I have no time to meditate. I’m busy.” I always say, “Don’t meditate! Who told you to meditate? But do one thing: without your mind being present, do not speak. Without your mind, being present, do not do anything.”
So, no action or no expression without your mind present. That means the presence of the mind. That is meditation. Being here now is meditation. You’re walking; you’re doing things, you do, you go through your daily chores, no problem. But let it be with the presence of mind. No absent-minded activity. No automatic, absent-minded activity. That itself will shift you. Just watch. Then, at some time, you will say, “Oh, my heart is beating.” Feel the heartbeat.
On the second level, you feel the heart is resting. It’s not beating continuously. It’s beating – resting – beating – resting, understand that rhythm. That is again a connection to you, just like if you are observing your breath.
Observe the space between the breath. Inhalation – exhalation – inhalation – exhalation – inhalation. There is a gap. Be aware of the gap. Just see that, just for five minutes a day, ten, fifteen minutes, slowly increase. You will see how much more powerful you become just by observing yourself and conserving energy that way.
Otherwise, our energy is all going out. Eyes take the maximum energy (visual), then the other senses. These things can’t be avoided. In the whole show called life, we can be well aware of ourselves. That’s the big thing you can achieve in this life. What else can you achieve?
Host: Exactly. That’s true. So we have to be conscious all the time. We have to be conscious.
Mohanji: That’s meditation. That’s a living meditation, practical meditation.
Host: So we talked about expectations from ourselves, from society. What does Mohanji expect from Mohanji?
Mohanji: Basically nothing. Like, I did not know last month we would talk today. It just happened, and I flow with it. And whatever I do, I give myself 100%. This is all I can promise to myself. I don’t usually do something half-hearted. For example, if I don’t want to do something, I would say, I would excuse myself, “I’m very sorry, but I can’t do this.”
So, at least, we do not keep two faces. No hypocrisy, one face, real and consistent, so that every day, yesterday, today, tomorrow, the day after, I’m the same. I don’t change as per the fluctuation. It gives a lot of stability to the people connecting to me. But in regular relationships, it keeps fluctuating, right? It depends on moods, it depends on various factors, but in my connection, it’s stable because I do not change every day. So my contribution to myself or my communication or my promise to myself is stability, which I practice.
Host: So introvert Mohanji, today, in front of me, you are enlightening the whole world. When did you feel that “Yes, I should speak, I am confident to speak?” When did you feel, when did that consciousness come?
Mohanji: That’s a very tricky question for me. I think I did not feel it. When people started coming to me, and they started telling me, “We are getting a lot of peace in your presence, and what you say is transforming us,” and people started coming. People started responding to my presence in many countries, wherever I go. That made me automatically. If I’ve been given a choice, I would have withdrawn.
To be very honest, I went to the Himalayas to stay there, three times when I was working. I decided I had enough of corporate life. Now I would wander as a monk. I left three times, and three times somebody sent me back.
One time, it was a young boy, around 15 or 16. I was sitting in one place. He just walked in and asked me in Hindi, “What are you doing here?” He looked like a shepherd to me and authoritatively is asking. I said, “I come here to meditate.” He said, “No, no! Go back; people are waiting for you.”
This was many years ago. At that time nobody was even there to pick me up from the airport, which means I was working in a company and of course, my driver would pick me up, but I’m saying that nobody knew me. Nobody knew me as Mohanji. So, at that time, I was pushed back to this world in one way or the other.
I always used to say I was searching for the source of sounds. Because I was in a world of noises, we are all in a world of noises, so many noises. I was really trying to dig deeper into the source of noises.
The source of noise is silence. All noises came from silence, and all noises go back to silence.
Silence is like the ocean; noises are like waves. I was spending time, for years, like early in the morning. I would wake up, and I try to connect to my spine, and I go deeper and deeper into the silence. I found it. Finally, I became kind of established in silence, where I had nothing to do with external noises. Even though I was working, I was interacting; internally, I was totally silent.
When I say silent, it means no thoughts, thoughtless state. After a while, when this happened, I had an urge to go to a suitable place where the frequency matches. In the Himalayas, in some cave or whatever. It’s very silent. I was thinking, “Okay, I should go there.” And then I was sent back. So, where am I coming back to? The world of noises. But I already distanced from that world of noises with my effort.
Later on, I had to come back to the world of noises, but I came back as the silence, and that makes a difference here. People are coming to see the silence, not the noises. It’s not my speech or my lecture, but it’s my state people are connecting to today. So that made the introvert into something else. It converted the introvert into a stable source of silence. That source of silence is what people are connecting to.
This is my understanding; this is what I feel. That does not need a demonstration; that’s visible. If people have eyes to see, they will see. If they don’t have eyes to see, it’s not my problem. Because those who have eyes to see will see, those who are blind need not see. That’s simple.
For me, that’s why I told you in the beginning; I don’t usually keep any agenda. The people who are coming to me are coming with clarity. Usually, some people come to test; that is okay, that’s part of the show. Some people come to test, and they go away. But most people who stay, who are consistently staying, have clarity, and they stay.
Host: That’s so beautiful, and definitely, that is the presence, your presence, even as I said, even miles away I can see that positivity. Today the day started with a little bit of negativity, but I can feel that it is compensating, you know, that I got more positivity now than the day I started with. So, even your grandfather also said that “This boy will make us proud”, I think.
Mohanji: Yeah, that was soon after this episode in school. When I wrote, I would like to be Alone, and they were thinking of changing the school etc. My grandfather said, “Leave him alone. Don’t worry, leave him alone. One day our whole clan will be known because of him.”
Host: He was an astrologer?
Mohanji: He was an astrologer, but he was a wise man. He used astrology; he used so many things. He made a school for the village and the whole architecture he did. He never learned architecture, but it was his plan. So, he was a visionary.
Host: Your family’s still there? Are your parents still there?
Mohanji: My father and mother are with me here in Bangalore.
Host: Today I think that boy, who wrote that “I want to be alone” and they felt ashamed of you, today I think they are so proud of you.
Mohanji: In fact, my father translated most of my writings into the local language, into my mother tongue (Malayalam). Yeah, he did. My father is 87 now. My mother is close to 80.
Host: My pranam to them.
Mohanji: Thank you.
Host: Yes, so how things changed. The boy once in his childhood made them sad, and today, the whole world, they are getting so much recognition because of him. Things changed, and this is all, as you said, nature had planned. I think you are just doing, following the path and enlightening the people.
Mohanji: I believe so because I think it is; it would be destiny, not that it is something I created. I don’t think I created anything. I’m just going with the flow.
Host: Do you believe in destiny?
Mohanji: From birth to death, there is a roadmap, right? That roadmap is taking us to wherever we are. Everything that we do has a plan like, wake up in the morning and where we are going to sleep and wake up, there is a plan.
We think that we planned it, but often not like that. Did we had a plan for Covid situation? So there is something in the larger plan, which is happening in individual life as well as collectively in the world. I believe that we are all floating in that particular thing.
But, Nupur, I believe in frequencies. See, if the frequency doesn’t match, we can’t communicate, just like television. There are so many channels in the air, but unless we have the frequency which connects to the TV, we will not see the picture. Like that, there is a frequency match or mismatch between every being. The animals use it very well. Their communication is also even connected to that.
Even various saints in the Himalayas use this technique. They know certain things, they communicate with people without any kind of gadgets, because they can. So frequency is a reality. And this frequency is what attracts people, or connects people, or stabilizes people. If a frequency is not matching, we can’t communicate, or temporarily we can, but on a larger plane, we can’t.
Host: That’s true. On a larger scale, we cannot be, temporarily we can. So, Mohanji, I think we have so much to learn from you, and today, I feel after, as you said, people should have one face only, not double faces, so they cannot be at peace. To realize who we are, we have to have only one face. I’m saying that I feel so much honoured. I think one interview is not enough to know you and your vision. You’re so much experienced, and you are doing so many things all over the world for humanity. And for me, I believe I’m a spiritual being. But for me, like today, as you said last time that “I’m not a guru, but rather a companion.”
Host: In Indian culture, mostly we see a lot of Gurus, Guru culture. What made you think that “No, I don’t want to be a Guru, I want to be a companion?” Why this difference?
Mohanji: I have found the Guru, real Guru sitting inside us. You have a Guru sitting inside you, which is your soul. That’s your personal Guru. The soul. It teaches you detachment; it teaches you no space or no birth, no death, eternity. Everything sits inside you. So, when I found that, what are these outside Gurus about? Only guides, right? Lord Dattatreya had 24 Gurus; they were all guides to pointing to your own Guru. So, what I can maximum do is to take You to Yourself. When you find your Guru, you’re settled. This understanding is very clear in me.
I don’t have to pretend to be a Guru. When I’m playing with my daughter Mila, I’m a father. When I’m with my wife, I’m a husband. When I am with my father, I’m a child. We are playing all these roles; why should we put a frame around one role, which is not necessary.
Now people connect to me as a friend, some people connect to me as a father, some people connect to me as a Guru, whatever they connect, I accept. They connect to me accordingly, and it gives them satisfaction, which is okay for me because of me, they are satisfied. I’m happy about it. We don’t have to be anything, Nupur. We are everything. Why should we keep one frame? Don’t you think it restricts us?
I like to be flowing like a river, not knowing the destination. I like it that way. I know the ocean is waiting. We don’t have to worry whether we flow left or right. Finally, we are reaching the ocean.
I like to give people realistic guidance. I have not learned the scriptures. I don’t quote from books at all because I feel that they are all good, they are great, but the thing is that, why should we put frames at all? Okay, this is how it is. When we say that’s how it is, then people like to think only at that level.
A good teacher only tells you where to look, not what to see. What to see is your choice. You see as you like. Where to look, I will tell you. Look within. I’m giving a very clear picture. Look inside you. Whatever you are looking for, you will find. There is nobody greater or lesser or equal to you. You are unique, and your uniqueness is your authenticity. This is the Truth.
So for that, when I look at anybody, I see them authentic, I see them true, and I see a Guru in them. Then how can I say I am the Guru? It’s very difficult for me. Otherwise, I’m lying. I would have to lie, “Look here, I am the Guru. Don’t look anywhere else.” That means I’m trying to mislead you. I can’t; it’s not good. Hypocrisy is not our cup of tea.
Host: So you just help them to have the self-realization.
Mohanji: No, beyond Self-Realization, there is total dissolution. Self-realization is realizing the self inside of you. That happens anyway, at some point in time. But dissolution is the drop falling into the ocean and becoming the ocean. It has the whole experience of the ocean, God-Realization.
Host: That’s wonderfully said, and I’m sure that those viewers online today, they’re watching, and they are getting enlightened, and they will be waiting for you more and more. This is just our first episode, so we’ll continue because the world needs to know, the world needs to learn, and the world needs to get enlightened. Before we end the interview, I have a rapid-fire for you (smiles). This is going to be a very friendly rapid-fire for you. You know what I mean – simple questions.
Host: What is your favourite food?
Mohanji: Vegan food. I’m a vegan.
Host: In vegan, what is your favourite, any particular dish?
Mohanji: I like the South Indian, like dosa. South Indian is my favourite. Dosa, sambar, that kind of stuff.
Host: That’s wonderful. I also love sambar. So, next time when I am visiting, I’d love to have food with you.
Mohanji: Welcome, always.
Host: Thank you so much. Your favourite place around the world?
Mohanji: Where people love me. Wherever people love me, I love to go there. I visited many places, but it’s not about places. It’s about the hearts. Wherever people love me, I like to be there.
Host: Your favourite person?
Mohanji: I would say, God. I like to be ecstatically drunk with God.
Host: So beautifully, you said, and do you have any favourite car or any favourite vehicle?
Mohanji: Vehicle? Well, not necessarily. I love bikes a lot. Yeah, cars are a bit too tame for me, but now I don’t get permission to travel by bike too much because people are afraid that I will meet with an accident. Many people are security-oriented; they want to keep me alive. But otherwise, I love Harley Davidson kind of vehicle. And for a car, I love Mercedes Benz. There are many cars in fact. Even Toyota I like. It’s not easy to say.
Host: I now need just one word of these things. Politics?
Mohanji: Service. Politics should be service, not the politics that we see today, the ego-based ownership-based, control-based, fear-based. It is absolutely not politics. It’s manipulation. We can’t even use the word “politics “. Politics should be service, just to serve. The power should be to serve the people.
Mohanji: You’re being yourself.
Host: Your wife.
Mohanji: I would say my mirror, my reflection.
Mohanji: She’s an individual. I would like to see her as an individual, unique individual with uniqueness and her own quality. I never asked her to imitate me. I would like her to be herself. So, in a way, my heart, my reflection.
Host: Indian media.
Mohanji: Indian media is the chaos, I think. It’s a very wild place. Indian media is like a Wild West. Indian media has become like that, hasn’t it? And social media is even more like a crucifixion every day; love to assassinate people.
Host: It’s a lot of pain, actually, and that’s why people are not happy, I think.
Mohanji: It’s true. It is good and bad, like, social media is helping us to connect, right? Otherwise, how would we have met so easily? Of course, we met thanks to Rajiv Duggal. But apart from that, social media has its positives, but the negative side is, I would say, that it is used to spread venom.
I always believe we should never talk bad about anybody. All are karmic beings; all have weaknesses and strengths. We should not highlight somebody’s weakness and tell the people and make a shame of that person. That’s mean. And that diminishes us, not them. I believe that we can talk positively about people, about good things they do in the world. This is okay. Let the weaknesses be. Everybody has weaknesses; let it be. This is what I feel. So social media is both good and bad in that way.
Host: That’s true, that’s absolutely true. So Mohanji, it was a pleasure having you, and thank you for enlightening us, and those, whoever watching today, there will be so much enlightened. And I’m sure there will text me that they want more of you, so we’ll be waiting for you.
Mohanji: I’m there for you, I’m there.
Host: It’ll be my next episode definitely.
Mohanji: Anytime. I wish you great success and wish all the audience a great life ahead. Be connected to yourself and do your best for the world. Have a great life. Richness is inside. You can choose to be rich by sharing what you have, whatever you have. Not just money, skill, time, love, anything you have you share.
I wish great success to all of you.
Host: Thank you so much, and it means a lot to us. You said that it will have great success and I’m sure that it will be a success.
Thank you so much, and thank you for your time. Namaste.
Mohanji: Thanks a lot. All the best.
Host: Thank you, Mohanji. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Mohanji: My pleasure.
Host: Thank you, and take care of yourself. All the best.
Mohanji: Thank you. Take care. All the best.
Transcribed by Nada Rakovic
Proofread by Gayatri, Biljana, Rekha